Japanese Arisaka Rifle Duffle Cut

Japanese Arisaka Rifle Duffle Cut 3,9/5 1547 reviews

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Duffel Cut Value?

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11-17-2007, 06:32 PM	#1
Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,366	Hello, all. I have a chance to get a nice, well used/been there, Mod.98 S/42/G. The stock is duffel cut however. Can anyone tell me how much this reduces the value? I can not post pics. until I get the rifle, but I do not see any kind of import marks. Many thanks in advance! Charles

11-17-2007, 07:53 PM	#2
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 430	$0

11-17-2007, 08:49 PM

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 6,854

Originally Posted by Bob in OH

I agree with Bob... Provided it didn't progress further..Duffle cut stocks very often lead to sanded stocks and that does hurt..Especially when stock proofs are obliterated...Bodes

11-18-2007, 10:29 AM	#4
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 490	I might put a caveat on that- exposed duffel cuts do hurt the value, especially if they are behind the rear band. If the cut is under the rear band, then I am with Bob- 0$

11-18-2007, 10:46 AM

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 361

For what it's worth, Several years ago, I picked up a real nice all matcher with original sling vet bring back 43BYF I believe, for my son in law. It had a mint bore. It sold then for $395.00, and the worst part, the owner used a metal hose clamp to hold the upper piece's together, just to go a-hunting! Alittle sanding and it was in good shape again. I also heard that duff cuts made the rifle even more 'bring Back' authentic If the rest of the rifle has not been messed with, I would buy it. All matchers are very scarce!
geopop

11-18-2007, 11:22 AM

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 4,731

Originally Posted by geopop71

I own several cut stock 98k's but I personally will not pay as much for one as one that is not..and I generally try to avoid them. In some cases I would prefer to have a mm bolt on a 98k than a cut stock..it is situational depending on several things.
I also understand that many collectors have no problems with these cut stocks and a few that I have met like them more!
My problem is that other than being post use modified, I have real doubts that this cut was much done to fit these in a duffle bag! In probably 30 years of asking vets and informed collectors I have simply found almost no good evidence of this!
What I have found is that stocks were cut to parcel length restrictions of the time and locations they were being sent. This was not limited to arms being shipped (mailed) from Europe to the U.S. but it also applied to lengths of parcels being mailed from point A to point B within the U.S. and I understand that this was the case until around the 1960s.
IMO it is a reach to say that all of these duffle cut 98k's were cut in order to bring them back as they just as well may have ben cut 10 years later to mail them to a buyer somewhere.

11-18-2007, 12:24 PM

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 361

Phild:
Very interesting about mailing, never thought about that, however, it seems it would be much easier to just take the rifle apart whether shipping or duffel bagging it! You gotta admit, much much shorter package!
There was an interesting story during WW 2 in the newspaper of a GI who went through the agonizing prosses of taking apart a Luger and sending the parts home a piece at a time. After a couple of months, he received a package
from his wife with the Luger inside, all together. She said she had a gunsmith
assemble the pistol and asked him 'Why wouldn't ordnance do it for him?'
geopop

11-18-2007, 03:38 PM	#8
Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,366	I was wondering if there are Arisaka, Gew. 98 and other long rifles that are duffel cut? I have several long Mauser rifles, export Argent. and Brazilians that are not cut. The only ones I see duffel cut are K-98s.

11-18-2007, 04:43 PM	#9
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 430

11-18-2007, 06:26 PM

#10

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 4,731

Originally Posted by geopop71

Thanks,that's a great story it sounds like something that would happen to me.
I've seen many period newsreels that show soldiers from the Pacific (and I mean hundreds of soldiers in various units) leaving ships on the west coast with thier baggage and Japanese rifles on thier shoulders. There was nothing covert about bringing these things back.
Has anyone seen any photos or film clips that show GIs from Europe getting off the ships (you know the often taken gangplank shots) with German rifles? I can not recall any..but I have not really looked that hard in years past either.

11-18-2007, 07:55 PM

#11

Join Date: Jan 2003

Posts: 1,667

I have several duffelcut Arisakas.
Much rather have a duffle cut than mm. They are fairly easy to repair if you choose to.
I think sometimes folks don't realize the vast amounts of souveniers that were brought or sent home. Or that literally millions of GIs were involved.
Any combination of mail/dufflebag/handbag/over the shoulder is possible.
I saw a K 43 a while back that was cut at the wrist.
I got a G33/40 that was mailed back with a drilling.
It was apparantly short enough that it was only disassembled.
The other big mistake the new generation makes is the assumption that no 'bringback' papers makes it an import.
Of the dozens of closet guns I bought or saw before '65, none had papers and I personally knew the vet or his family.
The paperwork was a hit or miss deal depending on where or when you left with it.
Most all imports had no rods, slings, or sight hoods.
Most had mm bolts and many were sold without bolts.

11-25-2007, 09:47 PM	#12
Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,599	As long as we're on the subject on duffel-cuts, here for show-and-tell is my duffel-cut Mannlicher-Berthier Mle 1891/16 carbine. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru..d.php?t=184310

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Duffle cut stocks very often lead to sanded stocks and that does hurt. I was wondering if there are Arisaka, Gew. In various units) leaving ships on the west coast with thier baggage and Japanese rifles on thier shoulders. Great deals on Parts for Arisaka Rifles. Trick out or upgrade your firearm with the largest gun parts selection at eBay.com. Fast & Free shipping on many items! Make Offer - WW2 VINTAGE JAPANESE ARISAKA T38 RIFLE STOCK TANG FORGED STEEL PART.

I have an Arisaka Type 99 with sling, bayonet, and the crate it was shipped home in. Fortunately the GI made a crate long enough that the whole assembled rifle fit in it. 'Duffel cut' is a term applied to all such cut stocks, whether it was cut to make it fit into a duffel bag or a crate.

Got a Type 99 Arisaka today as part of a trade. This thing is in great shape. Before I say it is all matching, is the number stamped on the back edge of the dust cover supposed to match the receiver/bolt?It is duffle cut. However the duffel cut was done in such a way that it is concealed by the front band that has the front sling swivel on it. So, when the rifle is assembled, you don't see or notice it.Unfortunately, the mum has been ground.

It is also missing its monopod.It has the muzzle cover (it is spring loaded at the muzzle), cleaning rod, aircraft sights and dust cover.This is my first Japanese rifle and I know absolutely nothing about them. Here is what I've determined from reading the internet:1. Jinsen Arsenal mark2. Serial # 1467There is a character that preceds the serial number that indicates series 10. However, the website says this should be a series 40 rifle so I'm confused.It has the early knurled back safety and a long cleaning rod.I got a bayonet in the deal also.NEW PICTURES START HEREOK.

Here are some additional detailed photos. One issue I'm just struggling with is the 'series' character. I understand that Type 99's from Jinsen were supposed to be series 40. But this character looks like it was supposed to appear this way. It is a nice, deep impression and doesn't look like 'sloppy' work. Here is a close up of the 'Series' mark:There are matching numbers on the safety, the extractor, the firing pin, and the bolt.

The dust cover does not match. One person has mentioned there should be a number on the front band. However, my rifle does not have any numbers or marks on the front band.Here are some additional arsenal marks on the bolt:Firing pin assemblyHere is a picture of the duffle cut. It snugs up against the other section and is not visible when the barrel band is in place.Here are pictures of the barrel cover. It appears to have some type of japanese character on it but it is hard to make out what it is.Here is a picture showing the full length cleaning rod.Here I tried to get a few shots showing the condition of the inside of the receiver area.Here are some closer shots moving up the right side of the rifle.

Nexus mods left 4 dead 2. Judging from the condition of the bottom of the stock, lack of scratch marks and the intact finish on the monopod mount, I don't believe this rifle ever had a monopod mounted.Top of rifle:Left side of rifle. Again, judging from the condition of the bottom stock, lack of scratch marks and the intact finish on the monopod mount, I don't believe this rifle ever had a monopod mounted.Bottom of rifle:ButtstockMuzzleAnyone have a guess at the value of this rifle?I want to buy a bayonet to go with this rifle. I've found several Jinsen arsenal bayonets for sale. Is there a particular type or series that would be 'correct' for this rifle?Thanks everyone for your replies and input.

Most people are familiar with the Type 38 Arisaka, which was one of the two very distinctive Japanese rifles of World War II (along with the Type 99). The Type 38 was an outstanding rifle in large part because it was the result of several years of experience and development which began in 1897 with the. This first Japanese smallbore military rifle was designed by a committee (led by Col. Arisaka) from the best elements of other rifles being made at the time. It used a bolt which was significantly more complex than the elegant Type 38 bolt which would follow later. Many Type 99s were re-chambered by running a.30-06 reamer into the old chamber.

Then they were reloaded with.30-06 cases with.311 bullets. If the barrel was not set back you got a slight bulge just ahead of the rim. If the barrel was set back you had what was in effect a.311-06 or 7.7-06 wildcat with ballistics almost identical to a.30-06.

I used cut-down.30-06 cases and.308 cases for years with no problems. You just did not full-length resize the cases only neck-sized.

Powder was no problem just fill to the base of the neck with H-4831 and shoot it. Some of my cases have over 50+ full power firings on them.

The best were “Norma 7.7 Jap” cases or loaded rounds. I have about 300 of these. The Thai Type 83 Short Rifle were originally New Nagoya T38 long rifles in 6,5 calibre.

7.7 Jap Rifle Value

I have several T83 Format Training rifles ( still in 6,5, but with cut Firing Pins and Bent down Bolt handles, and Pinned Mag latches–ie “Non Firers”) as well as one Cal.30 conversion. Actually this bolt is rather Gew.88 style, than Mauser. It’s a pity you didn’t actually stripped the bolt, as that would show off the largest ever bolt disassembly tool – you need a whole rifle with cleaning rod in place standing on the stock plate to disassemble the bolt! The cleaning rod has a special bushing that you rest the exposed firing pin tip into it (after you take the front part of the bolt with extractor and ejector – the hummed-over part opposite the extractor – and unscrew the rear screw). Then you place the firing pin tip into that bushing and give it a shove, so that the hook-safety part with two-part firing pin holder exits the rear end of the bolt. Then you take the two halves of the FP holder out, ease up on the bolt, releasing the tension of the FP spring, and take the FP out.Nightmarish? The SA stamps were not necessarily bought from Japan directly.

Many (as much as 100 000) of both 30 and 35-Shiki obsolete rifles were sold to Russia during WW1, and then by the way of Russia, they got to neighboring countries, like Poland or Finland. In fact, the Japanese rifles were official Secondary Standard in the Russian army, to the extent of Fedorov chambering his 1916 Avtomat for the Japanese round. We’ve got about a dozen ex-Tsarist 30-, 35- and 38-Shiki rifles in the Polish Army Museum collection in Warsaw, and damn fine rifles they are. I can confirm that no Type 30, Type 35 or Type 38 Arisakas were bought directly from Japan by the Finnish Army.

Japanese Arisaka Rifle Stock

All of them were came from disarmed Russian troops in 1917 and 1918 or were supplied to the Red Guard (Socialists) by the Russian Bolsheviks during the Finnish Civil War in 1918. Nearly all were sold abroad during the interwar period (the largest batch went to Estonia) and only a few hundred saw service in WW2 with the Civil Guard home front troops. So, the SA marked Arisakas are actually quite rare today in Finland. Many of the remaining were sporterized in the 1950s. A bit late seeing your question, but the proper ammunition for your rifle is the 6.5x50mm SR (for semi-rimmed) Arisaka (or Japanese). If you locate new factory-made ammunition, the boxes should say “6,5mm Jap” (Norma) or “6.5 JAP (Hornady and again, Norma).

Bullets are 156-grain round nose soft point (Norma) and 140-grain spitzer soft point (Hornady). Privi Partizan formerly made loaded ammunition, but presently appears to offer only empty cases for reloading.If you someday decide to reload the 6.5 Japanese, it pays to consider that best accuracy may be achieved by using cast lead or jacketed bullets of anywhere from.264” diameter (the “standard” bullet diameter for most 6.5mm cartridges) up to bullets of.268″ diameter (usually associated with 6.5x52mm Italian Carcano cartridges). It entirely depends upon the actual groove diameter of your specific rifle’s barrel.